JFK Doc Perry Oswald

JFK DOC PERRY TRIED SAVE OSWALD

"The fact is we were very close, I think, to winning the battle.
We have seen injuries of this magnitude, they rarely survive,
this is a very serious injury and to the best of my knowledge
I have not seen anyone with this particular set of injuries survive.
But at one point -- once we controlled the hemorrhage
and once I had control of the aorta and was able to stop the bleeding of that area --
I actually felt we had a very good chance
since everything had proceeded with expediency."

WARREN COMMISSION TESTIMONY
OF DR MALCOLM PERRY
taken on March 1964
at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, Texas

...SPECTER - Did you have any occasion to render any treatment to Governor Connally at Parkland Hospital?

Dr. PERRY - I saw the Governor in regard to the consultation in regard to the injury to his leg. As I related earlier I am consultant in vascular surgery to the hospital, and the estimated course of the missile in his leg presupposed that he might have an injury to his femoral artery or vein and Dr. Shires asked me if I would put on a scrub suit and come to the operating room too in case it was necessary to do some arterial surgery. It was not, however, so I did not operate.

SPECTER - At what time approximately did you arrive at the operating room where Governor Connally was being cared for?

Dr. PERRY - Yes, At that time I was there during the time Dr. Shires was there and Dr. Gregory was also operating on the arm at that point. Dr. Shaw had completed his portion of the procedure.

SPECTER - That would have been after the press conference had been completed?

SPECTER - Did you have occasion to render medical aid to Lee Harvey Oswald on November 24?

McCLOY - Before you get to that may I get clear, Dr. Shires and Dr. Gregory were in attendance?

BOGGS - Before you get to Oswald may I ask one question? I am sure the doctor covered it. You said the minute you saw the President you felt he had suffered a mortal wound?

Dr. PERRY - Well, I saw his condition immediately, and as you are aware, I have attended a lot of people with severe injuries.

Dr. PERRY - And he obviously was in extremis when I walked in the room. And then I noted very cursorily the wound in the head and it was obvious that this was an extremely serious wound.

FORD - May I ask...during the total time that you were examining and treating the President, how much of his exposed body did you see?

Dr. PERRY - The upper trunk predominantly, Congressman Ford. His chest, and, of course, his arms were bare, neck and head. I did not examine any other portions of his body nor did I see any other portions except briefly when I felt for the femoral pulse on the left side.

SPECTER - Would you describe the treatment rendered to Mr. Oswald at Parkland Memorial Hospital by yourself and by others as you observed it?

Dr. PERRY - Well, I went immediately to the emergency room again, Jones and I who also was in the hospital again, and told me that I was the only attending surgeon present, and that they were bringing Mr. Oswald out, and I was in the surgery suite and I went directly to the emergency room just as he was being brought indoors.

Dr. PERRY - I really don't know, sir. It was about 11:15 or so when I was up in surgery. I had been seeing a baby in regard to an operation we had scheduled at 1 o'clock and then Dr. Jones came after me.

SPECTER - How long did it take you approximately to travel from the point where you received the notice that he was en route until your arrival at the emergency room?

Dr. PERRY - He was brought into the emergency room, trauma room number two, and as they wheeled him in I came around the corner.

Dr. PERRY - Well, there were numerous people in attendance, more so than on the previous incident on Friday. He also obviously was quite seriously injured. He was cyanotic, very blue and although he also was attempting respirations, they were not effective, and an endotracheal tube was placed in him by one of the anesthesiologists, I think Dr. Jenkins, and I examined his chest and noted the entrance point of the bullet wound on the left side and I could feel the bullet just under the skin on the right side, right rear margin, indicating the bullet had passed entirely through his body and come to rest under the skin.

Dr. PERRY - I beg your pardon sir, the bullet entered approximately the midaxillary line at about the 9th or 10th interspace on the left side of the chest cage, and came to rest just under the rib margin on the right side under the skin.

Dr. PERRY - It is about the mid portion of the fold extending down from the armpit on the left. This is just rough because I glanced at that briefly and determined the nature of the path of the bullet and from looking at him it was obvious that this had traversed major structures in his body in order to reach that particular place, so while a cutdown was being done again to administer fluid, I asked someone to put in a left chest tube on him because it appeared it went in and I recalled surgery until they were bringing him directly up. Dr. Tom Shires, Chief of the Surgical Services, came into the door at a point and Dr. McClelland, and we left and went to surgery to change clothes and they brought him from there immediately to surgery and we proceeded with the operation.

SPECTER - Who was present, if anyone, with Mr. Oswald at the time you arrived there?

Dr. PERRY - Dr. Jenkins was there, Dr. M. T. Jenkins Chief of Anesthesiology. I think Dr. Giesecke was also there again, although I am not sure of that. I saw Dr. Risk who is a resident in urology and I saw Dr. Dulany who is a resident in surgery. Dr. Boland, I believe who is a resident in thoracic surgery and, of course, Dr. Jones and myself, and there were several other people, the nurses, I don't recall.

SPECTER - Will you describe briefly the physical layout utilized in taking Mr. Oswald from trauma room number two which you have already described up to the operating room?

Dr. PERRY - We have an express elevator that connects delivery room, operating room, emergency room and it is approximately 20 yards from trauma room two, I would estimate, just around the comer, in an even corridor and although I was not there as they took him up, I was in the operating room preparing and scrubbing, he was wheeled directly there to the express elevator and taken to the second floor where the operating suites are.

SPECTER - Approximately how long does it take to get a patient from the trauma room up to the operating room?

Dr. PERRY - It depends on a lot of factors. One is if the elevator is there or not or if it happens to be in surgery or in the delivery room. But I have on occasion where it was necessary that you must go with all dispatch to the operating room, have done it in a matter of a few minutes. They brought him right in the door, placed him on the elevator with a finger controlling the hemorrhage where you could take him directly to the operating room. I have done that in a matter, I am sure, of less than 3 or 4 minutes if I had to.

SPECTER - Approximately how long did it take to get Oswald from trauma room two to the operating room?

Dr. PERRY - I don't know, I was told subsequently it was 12 minutes from the time we had him up. And----

BOGGS - How long was it from the time he was shot until he reached the hospital?

Dr. PERRY - No, sir; and even had he been, of course, once we had the endotracheal tube in he could not have spoken.

Dr. PERRY - I first assisted Dr. Shires and then Ronald Jones and Dr. McClelland were also at the operation.

SPECTER - Will you describe the operative procedures employed on Mr. Oswald please?

Dr. PERRY - Yes. From the nature of the trajectory of the wound and the nature of the path of the bullet on the other side it was obvious that it had traversed major vessels, the aorta and vena cava. The aorta and vena cava, the heart area, and then a midline incision was made. A rapid prep with iodine was done, the patient was draped. An incision was carried rapidly into the abdominal cavity at which time we noticed approximately 3 litres of free blood which is an excess of three quarts. This was removed by suction, lap packs and by just moving it out in the form of clots with the hands. It was noted there was considerable bleeding appearing in both the right upper and left upper quadrants of the body. There was a large hematoma retroperitoneally in the midline also, causing the bowels to be pushed forward rather strikingly. We immediately dissected over the portal vein on the right since it was apparently injured, and placed a vascular occlusive clamp of the Sittinsky type in this area to control the bleeding. Noted an injury to the right kidney and to the lobe of the liver. We also noted there was an injury to the stomach, the pancreas, the spleen. At that point it became apparent that he had indeed struck major vessels, and appeared to be the aorta, so the left colon was reflected very rapidly in order to allow us to enter the space behind the intestines, the retroperitoneal space, and at that point I controlled the bleeding from the aorta by finger pressure below and above this area. The bullet had knocked the superior mesenteric artery completely off the aorta exposing a large area. After I had controlled the bleeding Dr. Shires was able to dissect around the area sufficient to allow us to gain control of the aorta, superior artery and the vena cava and the placement of vascular clamps across these vessels in order to stop the hemorrhage. At this point, he was being given blood and of course, the suitable anesthesia measures which were oxygen under pressure. He did not require an anesthetic agent, I am told.

Dr. PERRY - I think one of the residents did, one of the anesthesia residents. We at that point had restored his blood pressure. I don't know the exact recordings, but I was told subsequently it had returned to near normal levels since we had the bleeding controlled.

Dr. PERRY - It was being assisted and controlled, of course, by anesthesiology. This was no problem. We had a tube in place and was breathing for him so he had no problem with respiration. This was completely under control of anesthesia. The blood pressure was controlled and we stopped for a moment to determine how we would best go about repairing the structures and which would have priority, all the bleeding had stopped but, as I recall, the clamping of the aorta at the level of the superior mesenteric artery means, of course, that you must prevent blood from entering the kidneys, and this in itself can be hazardous if extended, and therefore we decided this must be repaired immediately in order to restore blood into the kidneys and the lower portion of the body. Then Dr. Jenkins informed me and Dr. Shires that his cardiac action was becoming weak, and I don't remember all the details surrounding the medications and the things that were done at this particular time, but he developed a backward cardiac failure, his heart slowed abruptly and the blood pressure fell again and it was apparent the tremendous blood loss he had had set the stage for irreversible shock and lack of pumping action from the heart although he was being given massive transfusions, I don't know the exact number, probably he had 10 or 12 units. I believe it is in the record. At this point when they told me a cardiac arrest had occurred as a result of the hemorrhage and blood loss I took a knife and opened the left chest in the fourth interspace and reached in to massage his heart, and the heart was flabby, and dilated, and apparently contained very little blood. I began to massage the heart, to maintain it as we infused the blood and was able to obtain a palpable pulse in the carotid vessels going to the neck and into the head. We were unable to get the heart to go, and it began to fibrillate which is an uncoordinated motion of the muscles of the heart itself and the successive electrical shocks were applied with the defibrillator and to stimulate heart action, and we failed in this and the cardiac pacemaker was sewn in place, and it was handed to me by the thoracic surgery resident, and I sewed it into the heart to artificially induce heart action, this also was without benefit. We were never able to restore effective heart action and then Dr. Jenkins informed us neurologically he was not responding, that his reflexes were gone, and he felt that he had expired.

SPECTER - At approximately how long after he arrived at the hospital did that occur?

SPECTER - Is there any question but that he was alive during the course of your operative procedures?

Dr. PERRY - Oh, no, no question. The fact is we were very close, I think, to winning the battle. We have seen injuries of this magnitude, they rarely survive, this is a very serious injury and to the best of my knowledge I have not seen anyone with this particular set of injuries survive. But at one point -- once we controlled the hemorrhage and once I had control of the aorta and was able to stop the bleeding of that area -- I actually felt we had a very good chance since everything had proceeded with expediency.

SPECTER - Have you been interviewed by any representative of the Federal Government in connection with your treatment of President Kennedy, Dr. Perry?

Dr. PERRY - I regret that I do not recall their names. I was interviewed by two gentlemen from the Secret Service approximately the following week, as I recall, and again about a month ago.

SPECTER - And what questions were asked of you on the first interview by the Secret Service?

Dr. PERRY - Essentially in regard to the treatment and once again speculation as to where the bullets might have originated and what the nature of the wounds were and I was unable to supply them with any adequate information.

SPECTER - Were the responses given by you to the Secret Service on that first interview essentially the same as you have given today?

Dr. PERRY - With minor variations in wording, they are essentially the same.

SPECTER - Approximately when did the second interview occur with the Secret Service?

Dr. PERRY - A gentleman identified himself as being connected with the Warren Commission and Secret Service. I asked for his credentials which he duly supplied and he asked me in regard to any further information I might have pertaining to the events of that weekend, and we reiterated some of these statements which I made previously, and since I had nothing more to add, why it was terminated.

SPECTER - Did you supply any information which was in any way different from that which you have testified to here today?

SPECTER - On the second interview, did the man identify himself to you as a Secret Service agent who was conducting a further inquiry at the request of the President's Commission?

SPECTER - Did I discuss the facts within your knowledge or take your deposition in Dallas on Wednesday, March 25, 1964?

SPECTER - And was the information which you provided at that time in advance of the deposition and during the course of the deposition itself the same as the information which you provided here today concerning the treatment of President Kennedy, your observations and opinions on President Kennedy?

SPECTER - Have I made that transcript available to you this morning before we started this testimony?

SPECTER - Have you at any time changed any opinion which you held concerning any matter relating to President Kennedy?

SPECTER - Did you prepare a handwritten report on your care of President Kennedy which became part of the record of Parkland Hospital?

SPECTER - Which you identified during the course of the deposition proceeding as being your report?

SPECTER - Do you have any other notes of your own relating to any of the matters which you testified here today?

McCLOY - What was the condition of, general physical condition, apart from the wounds, of Oswald, as you observed him? Was his body healthy?

Dr. PERRY - I made only a very cursory examination, Mr. McCloy. He appeared rather thin to me.

Dr. PERRY - No, he would be what we would describe as a thinnish individual, that is very thin; was wiry rather than bulky muscles.

McCLOY - Were there any signs that you observed cursorily, symptoms of any prior disease?

DULLES - No distinguishing marks on the body that you saw, prior operations?

Dr. PERRY - No, sir; I did not look. There was no evidence of previous surgical operation on his abdomen, and I didn't examine anything else. Of course, this also can be missed unless you are looking for it. We went through the midline and unless one went looking for it we did not have time and we would not see it.

SPECTER - Dr. Perry, was the chest tube inserted in the President's chest abandoned or was that operation or operative procedure completed?

Dr. PERRY - The chest tube, to be placed there, was supposedly placed into the pleural cavity. However, I have knowledge that it was not.

SPECTER - And what was the reason for its not being placed into the plueral cavity?

Dr. PERRY - I did not speak with certainty but at that point I think that we were at the end of the procedure and they just did not continue with it.

Dr. PERRY - That, I think, is probably true, but I did not state that with certainty because I cannot state the exact sequence. I was employed myself at the time, and I think if it had been determined that this was not in, it would have been completed, if there was still time, but I am not sure of that. That is speculation.

SPECTER - With respect to the condition of the neck wounds, was it ragged or pushed out in any manner?

Dr. PERRY - No, it was not. As I originally described it, the edges were clean-cut, that is neither punched out, nor were they very ragged. I realize that is not a very specific description but it is in between those two areas.

Dr. PERRY - It was exuding blood during that procedure and thus I did not examine it very closely. In retrospect, I think it would have been of much more value had I looked at these things more carefully but I had directed my attention to other things.

DULLES - Have you examined the autopsy report made by the officials in Bethesda?

Dr. PERRY - I think so. At the time the testimony which I have given here my knowledge was given without the basis of that report. But now having had access to that report. I think it ties in very nicely. I see no discrepancies at all. For example, had I known that he had these other two wounds, it would have been much easier at the time to state a little more categorically about the trajectory of the missiles, but not knowing about those I could only speculate.

FORD - There is no basic conflict between what you have testified to or what you have said previously, and the autopsy report?

BOGGS - Just one question. I presume this question has been asked. This neck wound, was there any indication that that wound had come from the front?

Dr. PERRY - There is no way to tell, sir, for sure. As you may recall, passage of a high velocity missile, the damage it does, is dependent on two factors, actually, one being deformation of the missile, increase in its relative caliber, and the other the expending of the energy of that missile in the object it strikes. For example, the energy used to carry the missile beyond the object that it struck is obviously not going to cause much of an injury. If there is a missile of relatively high velocity, although I consider this a medium velocity weapon, that the missile for entrance or exit had the bullet not been deformed would not be substantially different, had it not been deformed nor particularly slowed in its velocity.

BOGGS - By that, you mean it would be difficult to determine the point of exit and the point of entrance under those circumstances?

Dr. PERRY - Yes, sir; unless one were able to ascertain the trajectory. If you could, for example, make check points between what the missile might have struck, then you could ascertain trajectory. But with a relatively high velocity missile, this also is difficult due to the amount of blast injury which occurs in enclosed tissues, similar to those I am sure you have seen to those discussed, so blast injury can be an area remote from the exact passage of the missile itself.

BOGGS - Of course, your main concern was to try to save the President's life and not...

Dr. PERRY - Yes, sir; it actually never occurred to me until all the questions began to come, and I was ill-prepared to meet them, but it never occurred to me to investigate because I was busy and I have done these types of things many times. It just never occurred to me to look into it until afterwards.

DULLES - I have one more question I would like to ask. Did you know anything about the spent bullet that was found on, I don't know what you call it -- the litter?

Dr. PERRY - My first knowledge of that was one of the newspaper publications had said there was a bullet found there. I don't know now whether it was or was not. I didn't find it.

SPECTER - May I say, Mr. Dulles, on that subject, I took several depositions on that subject in the Dallas Hospital and I think we have a reasonably conclusive answer on that question; and, in fact, it came from the stretcher of Governor Connally.

Dr. PERRY - They were quoted as having removed a bullet from Governor Connally's leg, the press quoted that, but a bullet was not removed from Governor Connally's leg.

SPECTER - There was no bullet removed from Governor Connally's leg, but there was a wound there, but there was a very small fragment embedded in the femur, as the deposition of Drs. Shaw, Shires, and Gregory will show. But the bullet was found on a stretcher and the question arose as to whose stretcher it was, and we have traced the two stretchers in a way so as to exclude the possibility of its being the stretcher on which President Kennedy was carried, and we have traced the path of Governor Connally's stretcher and have narrowed it to two stretchers. And the bullet came off of one of the two stretchers, so that, through the circumstances of the facts, it is reasonably conclusive that it came from the stretcher of Governor Connally.

FORD - How long did it take you to go from where you were when the page came to get down to trauma room No. 1?

Dr. PERRY - A matter of no more than a minute or so, Congressman Ford. It is down one flight of stairs and the door is almost immediately adjacent to the dining room where we would go and we did not wait on the elevator. We went down the stairs.

FORD - How long after the President was brought in before you went to trauma room No. 1?

Dr. PERRY - That I don't know either. My last recollection in regard to time was approximately 12:30 when I was having lunch prior to rounds, and Dr. Jones picked up the page and as we went downstairs I took off my watch and dropped it in my coat pocket, rather expecting to do some kind of procedure, and I took off my coat and I never looked at the clock until afterwards.

McCLOY - One more question, I want to get clear. The extent to which you examined Governor Connally's wounds, as I gather, you were asked to stand by.

Dr. PERRY - No, sir; all I did was come into the operating room, put on a scrub suit, cap and mask, and looked at the thigh wound before Dr. Shires started the operation. That was the extent of the episode into the wound, and I stayed there while he carried it down to the lower portion of the wound and indicated there was no serious injury and I left the operating room at that point.

FORD - Thank you very much, Dr. Perry. Your testimony has been most helpful.

Jackie Jura
~ an independent researcher monitoring local, national and international events ~

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